Difference between revisions of "Alfine 8spd internal hub"

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(STI Shifting)
 
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==Gear Reduction==
 
==Gear Reduction==
 +
===The Alfine===
 
:Gear Ratio Total Difference 3.07  
 
:Gear Ratio Total Difference 3.07  
 
:Gear Ratio 1 0.527  
 
:Gear Ratio 1 0.527  
Line 39: Line 40:
 
:Gear Ratio 6 1.223  
 
:Gear Ratio 6 1.223  
 
:Gear Ratio 7 1.419  
 
:Gear Ratio 7 1.419  
:Gear Ratio 8 1.615  
+
:Gear Ratio 8 1.615
 +
 
 +
Below is a comparison of these reductions to other common reductions used in cassette design. The Alfine gears were multiplied by a factor of 21 to get them to start at an equivilant of 11. I also include a 6 spd cassette that I built where I learned that spacing on cassette gears should not be even. This is because fine adjustment is needed in higher gears and gross adjustment is used in lower gears.
 +
 
 +
[[Image:Cassette-Design-chart.gif]]<br>
 +
 
 
==Chainring & Sprocket Choice==
 
==Chainring & Sprocket Choice==
  
Line 60: Line 66:
 
http://img1.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/CA1067.jpg
 
http://img1.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/CA1067.jpg
 
Shimano 4mm sealed end caps, Y6AM98080
 
Shimano 4mm sealed end caps, Y6AM98080
 +
 +
[[Image:Alfine9.jpg]]<br>
  
 
==Servicing and Special Tools==
 
==Servicing and Special Tools==
Line 76: Line 84:
 
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-S500-2631A_v1_m56577569830625646.pdf<br>
 
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-S500-2631A_v1_m56577569830625646.pdf<br>
 
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/ALfine/SL-S500/6M20A-SL-S500-EN_v1_m56577569830599923.pdf
 
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/ALfine/SL-S500/6M20A-SL-S500-EN_v1_m56577569830599923.pdf
 +
 +
Internals Pics<br>
 +
http://www.hubstripping.com/shimano-alfine/alfine-strip/index.html
 +
 +
==STI Shifting==
 +
 +
:http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/01/30/dynamics-synergy-road-bike-first-look/
 +
:http://www.dynamicbicycles.com/
 +
 +
Will a sora 8spd shifter work? What about a down tube shifter. I hope to get a down tube shifter to work by modifying an existing part.
 +
 +
The Alfine cable needs to be pulled 5.38mm per index for the hub to shift correctly.
 +
 +
I will probably need to modify a straight [http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate_straight.htm Shift Mate] with a 1.9x magnification to get things working properly.
 +
 +
All Shimano shifting systems use a shift ratio of 1:1.7 except for pre-1997 Dura-ace which uses 1:1.9. New DA10 will surely have a new ratio.
 +
 +
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946
 +
 +
::{| border="5"
 +
|+ '''Shimano Shifting'''
 +
! Gearing !! Cable Pull !! Cassette Pitch !! Shift Ratio
 +
|-
 +
! 6
 +
|3.24mm || 5.50 || 1.7 ||
 +
|-
 +
! 7
 +
|2.94mm || 5.00 || 1.7 ||
 +
|-
 +
! 8
 +
| 2.82mm || 4.80 || 1.7 ||
 +
|-
 +
! 9
 +
| 2.56mm || 4.35 || 1.7 ||
 +
|-
 +
! 10
 +
| 2.32mm || 3.95 || 1.7 ||
 +
|-
 +
! New DA10
 +
| ?.?mm || ?.?? || ?.? ||
 +
|}
 +
 +
 +
[[Image:Alfine-shift-pattern.gif]]<br><br>
 +
 +
===Down Tube Shifter===
 +
Shimano SL-R400 8spd <br>
 +
Shimano SL-1056-8 105 8spd
 +
 +
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-R400-1883_v1_m56577569830609217.pdf
 +
 +
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/105/ShiftLever/6CW0B-001_En_v1_m56577569830603933.pdf
 +
 +
==Braze ons==
 +
The cable end holder arm can be eliminated if the correct braze on is positioned in reference to the hub. Basically, the cable needs to run to the hub offset 15mm from the locknut/dropout interface.
 +
 +
==Trimming the nuts==
 +
 +
I found that I was able to cut 0.225" from the nuts to clean up their appearance.
 +
 +
[[Image:Alfine10.jpg]]<br><br>
 +
[[Image:Alfine11.jpg]]<br><br>
  
 
==Images==
 
==Images==
Line 87: Line 157:
 
[[Image:Alfine7.jpg]]<br><br>
 
[[Image:Alfine7.jpg]]<br><br>
 
[[Image:Alfine8.jpg]]<br><br>
 
[[Image:Alfine8.jpg]]<br><br>
 +
 +
==The Rohloff Speed Hub==
 +
http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/index.html<br>
 +
http://www.rohloff.de/uploads/media/Benutzerinfo_2.13.en.pdf
 +
 +
[[Image:Rohloff Gearing chart.jpg]]<br>
 +
 +
:Gear #1: 0.279
 +
:Gear #2: 0.316
 +
:Gear #3: 0.360
 +
:Gear #4: 0.409
 +
:Gear #5: 0.464
 +
:Gear #6: 0.528
 +
:Gear #7: 0.600
 +
:Gear #8: 0.682
 +
:Gear #9: 0.774
 +
:Gear #10: 0.881
 +
:Gear #11: 1.000
 +
:Gear #12: 1.135
 +
:Gear #13: 1.292
 +
:Gear #14: 1.467
 +
==The Sram iMotion 9==
 +
http://www.sram-imotion.com/pdf/Technikfolder9_E.pdf<br>
 +
http://www.sram-imotion.com/pdf/Manuals/i-MOTION-9.pdf<br>
 +
http://www.sram-imotion.com/pdf/Datenblatt9_E.pdf<br>
 +
 +
Overall 340 %
 +
1st gear 0,542
 +
2nd gear 0,621
 +
3rd gear 0,727
 +
4th gear 0,853
 +
5th gear 1,000
 +
6th gear 1,172
 +
7th gear 1,375
 +
8th gear 1,611
 +
9th gear 1,844
  
  
 
[[category:bicycle]]
 
[[category:bicycle]]
 
[[category:Drivetrain (Bicycle)]]
 
[[category:Drivetrain (Bicycle)]]

Latest revision as of 19:41, 2 February 2009

I have a bike that I've been developing. The 28er. It is meant to be the fictional 'one bike'. A bike that can be used on road, off road, commute, full dirt. It will never exist as everyone should know, but a real bike geek will always dream of attainment.

The rise of the Alfine

Alfine is Shimano's high end cruiser parts group. 2009 brings this group to the USA. Along with it a nice internal 8spd disc hub.

Parts and Cost

  • Alfine SGS501 32h Disc brake 8-spd Internal hub Black, QBP# HU7887, $275.00 (MSRP)
  • Alfine SL-S500 8spd Shift lever Black, QBP# LD5705, $50.00 (MSRP)
  • Alfine SG-S501 small parts kit, QBP# HU7889, $15.00 (MSRP)
  • Nexus 16 tooth cog, black, QBP# FW7016

The good

The hub itself is fantastic. It works impressively well. shifting under power, while coasting, while pedaling with only minor blips. I'm hoping figuring out the cable finesse will eliminate all of those.

The bad

Almost everything about the shifter sucks. You can't remove the display, it's low normal, it doesn't have 2 way triggers, the look is just gross. Most noticable is that you are only able to shift one gear at a time. Skipping a few sometimes would make a big difference.

A drop bar hydro STI lever would rule, I'd also like to know if other 8spd STI levers will work with the system.

The hub is heavy. It's weigh in the rear is odd since I am not used to this.

I will be doing more testing to see about seals and offroad performance.

Weight

The Alfine system added 3.5 lbs to the single speed bike weight. While a bit much for pure perfomance, it is in range for someone looking for a bombproof clean drivetrain with good performance.

Gear Reduction

The Alfine

Gear Ratio Total Difference 3.07
Gear Ratio 1 0.527
Gear Ratio 2 0.644
Gear Ratio 3 0.748
Gear Ratio 4 0.851
Gear Ratio 5 1.0
Gear Ratio 6 1.223
Gear Ratio 7 1.419
Gear Ratio 8 1.615

Below is a comparison of these reductions to other common reductions used in cassette design. The Alfine gears were multiplied by a factor of 21 to get them to start at an equivilant of 11. I also include a 6 spd cassette that I built where I learned that spacing on cassette gears should not be even. This is because fine adjustment is needed in higher gears and gross adjustment is used in lower gears.

Cassette-Design-chart.gif

Chainring & Sprocket Choice

I did my first ride as a commute to work. Golden Gate Bridge to Daly City. A perfect sample of San Francisco riding.

I had 32/16 primary gearing with the absolute worst tires for this test, 700x45c knobbies.

The gearing range was near perfect. For street use, I suspect that 34/16 will be really nice with 700x38 slicks, possibly taller.

I will test the 32/16 offroad this weekend.

Cable and Housing

I noticed that the stock cable housing was totally dry out of the box. I lubed the cable with Shimano Special Grease for SP41. That should help from the get go. I also used a sealed end with a grommet at the hub end. I do this on all my cable runs. Makes a huge difference in the life of the housing.

http://img1.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/LU8403.jpg Shimano SIS SP41 Grease, 50g, Y04180000


http://img1.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/CA1067.jpg Shimano 4mm sealed end caps, Y6AM98080

Alfine9.jpg

Servicing and Special Tools

Shifting

TL-AF10 opens the hub for servicing the shifting.

Bearings

Technical Dopcumentation

SG-S501 8-Speed Internal Hub Gear
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SG/EV-SG-S501-2788A_v1_m56577569830646705.pdf
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/37N0A-001_SG-S501/37N0A-001_SG-S501-EN_v1_m56577569830638091.pdf

SL-S500 Shift Lever
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-S500-2631A_v1_m56577569830625646.pdf
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/ALfine/SL-S500/6M20A-SL-S500-EN_v1_m56577569830599923.pdf

Internals Pics
http://www.hubstripping.com/shimano-alfine/alfine-strip/index.html

STI Shifting

http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/01/30/dynamics-synergy-road-bike-first-look/
http://www.dynamicbicycles.com/

Will a sora 8spd shifter work? What about a down tube shifter. I hope to get a down tube shifter to work by modifying an existing part.

The Alfine cable needs to be pulled 5.38mm per index for the hub to shift correctly.

I will probably need to modify a straight Shift Mate with a 1.9x magnification to get things working properly.

All Shimano shifting systems use a shift ratio of 1:1.7 except for pre-1997 Dura-ace which uses 1:1.9. New DA10 will surely have a new ratio.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Shimano Shifting
Gearing Cable Pull Cassette Pitch Shift Ratio
6 3.24mm 5.50 1.7
7 2.94mm 5.00 1.7
8 2.82mm 4.80 1.7
9 2.56mm 4.35 1.7
10 2.32mm 3.95 1.7
New DA10  ?.?mm  ?.??  ?.?


Alfine-shift-pattern.gif

Down Tube Shifter

Shimano SL-R400 8spd
Shimano SL-1056-8 105 8spd

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-R400-1883_v1_m56577569830609217.pdf

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/105/ShiftLever/6CW0B-001_En_v1_m56577569830603933.pdf

Braze ons

The cable end holder arm can be eliminated if the correct braze on is positioned in reference to the hub. Basically, the cable needs to run to the hub offset 15mm from the locknut/dropout interface.

Trimming the nuts

I found that I was able to cut 0.225" from the nuts to clean up their appearance.

Alfine10.jpg

Alfine11.jpg

Images

Alfine1.jpg

Alfine2.jpg

Alfine3.jpg

Alfine4.jpg

Alfine5.jpg

Alfine6.jpg

Alfine7.jpg

Alfine8.jpg

The Rohloff Speed Hub

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/index.html
http://www.rohloff.de/uploads/media/Benutzerinfo_2.13.en.pdf

Rohloff Gearing chart.jpg

Gear #1: 0.279
Gear #2: 0.316
Gear #3: 0.360
Gear #4: 0.409
Gear #5: 0.464
Gear #6: 0.528
Gear #7: 0.600
Gear #8: 0.682
Gear #9: 0.774
Gear #10: 0.881
Gear #11: 1.000
Gear #12: 1.135
Gear #13: 1.292
Gear #14: 1.467

The Sram iMotion 9

http://www.sram-imotion.com/pdf/Technikfolder9_E.pdf
http://www.sram-imotion.com/pdf/Manuals/i-MOTION-9.pdf
http://www.sram-imotion.com/pdf/Datenblatt9_E.pdf

Overall 340 % 1st gear 0,542 2nd gear 0,621 3rd gear 0,727 4th gear 0,853 5th gear 1,000 6th gear 1,172 7th gear 1,375 8th gear 1,611 9th gear 1,844